Historically, people have fought and died for the right to vote...and continue to do so.
Naturalized US citizens have to go to a lot of trouble to earn citizenship and the right to vote. Many of us got that right the "easy" way...do we take it for granted?
I just can't imagine why anyone (save serious illness or other complicating factor) would decide to NOT vote.

Linda P,
I very much hope we get to hear from the candidate on some of your comments and questions before others chime in.

Linda,

Your last suggestion goes against the Voting Rights Act.

Ms. Weiner,
If Ms. Greenwell agrees with Linda P's sentiments she would be involved in quite a bit more than that. In addition to seconding the notion that many BHSD voters are uninformed, uneducated and not very bright she would be in the position of asking the BHSD School Board to lead a fight to change Michigan's State Constitution (Article 2, I believe) that has no such restrictions on voting rights. This would take a bit of time and energy, no? -- not to mention money. Let's say, for the sake of trying to understand all the possibilities here, Ms. Greenwell and Linda P were successful in convincing the state to amend the constitution to require a high school diploma to vote. This would lead to fed case (any time a state tries to change voting criteria there is a constitutional challenge as the US constitution has a provision against "abridging" the right to vote) -- more money, more time (we are now in the land of the completely loopy, of course, but this is the direction Linda P's comments take us). My concern would be how a school board candidate would respond to a supporter (may be a friend, I don't know) when they not only insult huge swaths of the District but point it in a completely crazy direction? I remain curious to see the response. I really don't think it healthy to have someone on the SchoolBoard who implicitly or explicitly accepts those kind of wild suggestions. One should either be accountable for that kind of language or acknowledge it as hyperbole.

Ms. Greenwell,
I have to say that is the most disturbingly evasive response I have ever seen. While I can understand your loyalty if you can't even repudiate a supporter who is asking for a massive effort on the part of the School Board to get in to a consitutional battle you really should not -- as several have suggested -- sit on the board. If these are the kinds of ideas you tacitly endorse there would be, in fact, danger in having you sit. Alternately, if you can't publicly disavow friends and supporters who put forth damaging suggestions than there is a real problem with your candidacy. (Before other friends of yours chime in -- I have no reason whatsoever to doubt you are a good mom, neighbor, and so on -- I am talking about your role as candidate). There has to be a better option to provide necessary oversight for the District and to improve the communication between the many who feel somewhat alienated from the process.

Judy is saying that were Jenny on the board her mission would need to be school issues, not the general issue of voter participation. Barr misses that point in his zeal to poke at the board. Our district has amongst the best education results in the state--not exactly "failed practices."

Dr. Barr,

Changing voting laws and "transparency" of our local officials are two different things. As a highly educated individual I would have expected you to draw the distinction between that which should be a topic for national debate and that which should actually be debated here. No one is suggested that on Mrs. Greenwell's own time she shouldn't advocate for a change in the voting structure of this country if that is what is needed. I personally do not want my school board spending time on changing the American voting regulations when the business of running the district is what they are supposed to be focusing on.

Thanking

Exactly my point, Mac, thank you for finding the actual statisticis. As voter participation in non-November election goes, the turnout for the last high school bond vote was quite high. In fact, it was on par with turnout normally seen in November elections. Thus, I find it hard to accept Jenny's claim there was some kind of voter disconnect. Is it preferable to have 90 or 100% participation? Absolutely. Are we anywhere close to that for any kind of election in this country? Sadly, no, and that is a much bigger picture issue, not something tied to the merits of the local bond election or the ability for the Board of Education to connect with the voters. And that was Judy Weiner's point, Dr. Barr. Unfortunately, this particualr blog by Jenny is reaching for facts not in evidence.

J. Wagner

There actually are about 30,000 voters total when all the communities within the BHS District are added together. I think the 22,000 number must be only for Bloomfield Township voters that live in the BHS District.

Sorry.......

I asked the clerk that specifically to make sure of what the number was comprised of and was told that the number of registered voters who were eligible to vote on the Bond issue in the May election was NOT the total number of registered voters. The number I was given was of all of the registered voters of the communities living within the Bloomfield Hills School district.

I don't know what to say, but my numbers are different from yours. I am thinking that it has to do with the multiple municipalities within the BHS District.

I think, but am not 100% sure, that the difference in the voter numbers is that the 22,000 reported to S Sera is for Township residents in the BHSD. There are also West Bloomfield, Orchard Lake, Troy and perhaps some Auburn Hills residents that pay taxes to BHSD and thus would be eligible to vote in BHSD elections. I don't think those voters are reported in the Township numbers. That's my guess, anyway.

J. Wagner

Can you tell me where you got your numbers from? I'm still learning. I was able to find election results online, but not the specific numbers I was looking for. Part of why I repeated back to the clerk what had been said to me to make sure I understood it correctly!

Well, I will call back and double check (because I’m curious), but we did go over it twice and the words were the “total number of registered voters who live in the Bloomfield Hills School District”. To me that means everyone who lives within the district regardless of living in W.Bloomfield, Orchard Lake, Troy, etc.

Thanks!

I suspect the Township Clerk's office didn't fully understand your question. They would only be able to track registered voters that live in the Township. I'm by no means an election expert, but I think if you live in Orchard Lake but are in the BHSD, you are registered as a voter in Orchard Lake. Your precinct would participate in a BHSD election, but you would still be a registered voter in Orchard Lake. So, I don't think the Township counts those voters on their rolls.

J. Wagner

My numbers come from each separate municipality.

Mr. ( or is it Ms.) Sera,
A few months ago, I want through the same confusion over registered voters as you are right now. I have all of the correct numbers in a binder that I will look at tomorrow AM. I will post the numbers that you are looking for then. I know, though, from memory that Elizabeth's numbers are in the ballpark and are closer to the true numbers. More tomorrow.

Hello Mr. Baron,

Thank you! It really is a matter of my being curious at this point. I still feel that the conclusion that Mrs. Greenwell has drawn is incorrect. I have thought about the idea that a number of voters such as herself voted no in May "just on the principle of it" and not really on the merits of the proposal, and I begin to think that there could have been an even greater divide between the yes and no votes than what we saw. My next thought after that becomes that there is perhaps less of a disconnect between the board and the public now than is being droned on about. There is a group that really does feel a disconnect, but as the board continues on the path they have chosen (community committees, etc.) that should continue diminishing. That is if the discontents decide to contribute not dictate!

By the way I would like to thank you for your contributions to the discussions and the community last spring. I'll look for your answer tomorrow.

Ms. Sera,
BHS Voter Registration 101.
Oakland County Elections office is the keeper of all of the data. Their database is updated daily so the numbers move constantly. Because of that, I will talk in thousands.
BHS is made up of has 5 muncipalities, none of which has 100% of its precincts in BHS!
BT - 22k, WB - 6k, BH - 3k, Troy - 1k, Orchard Lake - 55 (only). Total - 32k.
You can get most of these numbers off of the election results on the Oakland County website BUT some of the 36 precincts have 2 school districts in them and the websites lists the voters in the entire precinct. I had to get a supplemental pdf reports from the county to split those precincts into their 2 parts, BHS and another school district.
Clear? Other questions, please let me know.

Hello Mr. Baron,

Thank you for "BHS Voter Registration 101". I was raised to be a life long learner and I appreciate those who take the moment to educate. Thank you also to Ms. Stieg.

I think it is perhaps as Ms. Stieg suggested, the person I spoke with yesterday didn't fully understand my question. Regardless, I will still draw the same conclusions. "Mac" pointed out yesterday that 47% of the registered voters made a "special" trip to the polls to vote on this issue. There is no doubt that we would wish that percentage had been higher. Unless every single voter and non voter can be polled to find out why they voted or didn't (not how) I think it would be safe to draw a long list of conclusions and not just the one of "disconnect with the board".

Have a good afternoon!

Created and produced by Bloomfield Hills radio students:

http://westbloomfield.patch.com/announcements/biff-radio-students-sweep-county-wide-psa-contest-586fb882

Hi Timothy,

Glad to see a teen entering in to civic debate. You are to be applauded. I hope your first week of school has gone well.

I was just wondering if you have heard the word Demagogue. If you have please excuse me having a teaching moment as I've been in learning mode all day. A Demagogue is a person who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power. Can you see where I'm heading with this. If you (or any of us) get direct answers to our direct questions I will be highly surprised.

Have a great night!

Linda P,
No, that is not accurate. If you look back up at the thread I was hoping to hear from the candidate first. I was wondering if she agreed with your suggestion that BHSD (or someone) begin a constitutional challenge to the section of the Michigan law that outlines voting. She still has not responded.

Linda P,

You are absolutely right; people violate the law, everyday. My comment about your suggestion was not meant to be vile, it was meant to be factual. Trying to pass a law requiring that everyone have a high school diploma would be, in the opinion of many people and I expect in the opinion of the US Justice Department, a violation of the Voting Rights Act of 1965. For reference, I included the Wikipedia link for a description of the act below. Requiring a high school diploma in order to vote would unduly disenfranchise voters who would likely to be of lower income, minorities, immigrants, and elderly. I don't really think that was your intent when you made your suggestion. I think it is safe to say that we all want a well informed citizenry to exercise their right to vote.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_Rights_Act

Mr. Barr,
I am frankly amazed that Patch continues to allow you to post unfounded charges of criminal wrongdoing. If Ms. Greenwell tacitly accepts your tactics, too, that speaks volumes for her candidacy. And this is from someone who agrees with you about the now chronic inability of the current union structure to deal with underperforming teachers.

Dr. Barr,

Just wondering……

1. How old were you when you started school and how long was your school year?

2. Can you detail Mrs. Greenwell's qualifications that make her "best" qualified?

3. Do you have a proposed method to "upgrade" teacher quality?

Thank you

Our teachers are outstanding. Unbelievably professional and well trained, and far and away better than those we had in my day.

After a week spent in school curriculum nights, I am in absolute awe of our teachers. Be careful what you wish for, because if salaries were provided by merit, the cost of education in the BHSD would only go up.

Sigh.....I was just "chillin" with a cup of tea when I read your comment above......

Mr. Barr,
I would love to have the candidate discuss the issues you raise. Does she, too, think the District organization should be abolished? Does she, too, think "finance":(not sure exactly what you mean there, but...) should be controlled by the county and the state? I would also like to hear her thoughts on the limits and focus of a local school board. You seem more interested in national, international reform? Would she focus on your sorts of constructions or be more interested in BHSD in particular. Your recommendation of Ms. Greenwell's "person" -- if not her qualifications for BHSD school board -- is noted.

Dr. Barr,

You are obviously someone of very strong opinions. Above I asked you three questions. None of three were attacks on you. The answers that you gave do not answer any of my three questions.

I am glad that to you the world is so very linear.

Dr. Barr,

I'm curious. Have you read the following article? It was published last fall.

Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/people-places/Why-Are-Finlands-Schools-Successful.html#ixzz26OWR2Pjy

The following is from Page 4 of the article.

"Public schools would be organized into one system of comprehensive schools, or peruskoulu, for ages 7 through 16. Teachers from all over the nation contributed to a national curriculum that provided guidelines, not prescriptions. Besides Finnish and Swedish (the country’s second official language), children would learn a third language (English is a favorite) usually beginning at age 9. Resources were distributed equally. As the comprehensive schools improved, so did the upper secondary schools (grades 10 through 12).The second critical decision came in 1979, when reformers required that every teacher earn a fifth-year master’s degree in theory and practice at one of eight state universities—at state expense. From then on, teachers were effectively granted equal status with doctors and lawyers.Applicants began flooding teaching programs, not because the salaries were so high but because autonomy and respect made the job attractive. In 2010, some 6,600 applicants vied for 660 primary school training slots, according to Sahlberg. By the mid-1980s, a final set of initiatives shook the classrooms free from the last vestiges of top-down regulation. Control over policies shifted to town councils.

The national curriculum was distilled into broad guidelines. National math goals for grades one through nine, for example, were reduced to a neat ten pages. Sifting and sorting children into so-called ability groupings was eliminated. All children—clever or less so—were to be taught in the same classrooms, with lots of special teacher help available to make sure no child really would be left behind. The inspectorate closed its doors in the early ’90s, turning accountability and inspection over to teachers and principals. “We have our own motivation to succeed because we love the work,” said Louhivuori. “Our incentives come from inside.”

This seems to go counter to some of your other writings. I haven't gotten to Japan and South Korea yet. For the rest of everyone reading this I understand that the conversation has strayed from the topic of Mrs. Greenwell's blog. She won't answer any of our questions so I'm hoping you'll forgive me. This article was actually interesting reading.

Have a good night!

Dr. Barr, you invite what you refer to as "personal attacks" because you make unfounded claims of criminal activity toward specific parties. Even in your response you say the following: "My criticism was not specifically directed to BHS, but I saw them as an example for failure of American education." How is that not a direct attack of the BHSD District and Board? You specifically said that "School boards collaborate with teacher unions who in turn provide financial support for election of board members who write their contracts." When I pointed out that Boards, including BHSD's, don't negotiate teacher contracts, district administrations do, you conveniently ignored that point. Just like you conveniently ignored my clarification on your comment about the rankings for Lasher and Andover. I simply pointed out where you were WRONG in your statements. There was nothing personal and nothing in the way of a personal attack. Simply, you were wrong. You seem to have a lot of ideas about reforming the U.S. education system, and that's great. But when you present those ideas in the context of fabricated accusations and misrepresented facts, it ruins your credibility. If you want to be taken seriously, cease with the antagonizing tactics and present your views in a reasonable manner and supported by facts.

J. Wagner

Ms. Greenwell,
You do understand the basic distinction between a voting public and a representative body (following simple parlimentary procedure, etc.) elected to conduct government business? Your analogy here suggests otherwise and comes across, frankly, as even more outlandish than Linda P's suggestion you challenge the voting rights act. If you aim to simply provoke -- which seems increasingly what your supporters admire -- it is better to do that from the podium at comments time then on the board where serious people are needed to do the day to day work. Quips (especially ones particularly not well thought out) are easy; getting accurate voting numbers, for example, takes a serious person. As a parent whose kids, I urge you to try to take the running of the board more seriously or leave the race.

Have to chuckle. Frequent posters like Linda, Ken, Barr, and myself know from the past year or so on the Patch that the likelihood of posting and NOT getting a response is fairly slim. I think we can all agree, despite our differences, that there are no rhetorical questions on the Patch blogs about schools or government. Poster beware, I'm afraid.

Linda P, I can understand why you don't expect a response to your comments. Dialogue doesn't really seem to be your thing, right? It requires reading and listening.So: let say, again, I know you weren't asking the blogger to respond. I was. I want to know how a candidate responds when a vocal supporter says something off the charts (like we should change voting rights in MI). If ideas like your's influence Ms. Greenwell she shouldn't be on a school board.

Linda,

I think it would be a safe assumption that apathetic voters whether or not they are "less informed or poorly educated voters" about local schools issues are probably not reading a blog about apathetic voters. Because of their apathy, they are not likely to be manipulated into voting one way or another.